It was our pleasure to sit down with the great writer and educator Roland Lazenby. This 90 minute interview focuses primarily on his most recent piece in the Roanoker Magazine highlighting his time spent around Coach Brent Pry and the Hokies over the course of this Spring and Summer through the prism of NIL and the modern college football landscape. We dive into more big picture questions for the Hokies beyond the 2025 season: Can we keep up in the NIL era? Is this sustainable for college football at large? Is Pry the right man for the task? Be sure to checkout the piece, Love in the Time of NIL, by subscribing or grabbing the latest issue of the Roanoker Magazine.

If you want more Roanoker Magazine content you can visit:

Roanoker Magazine Virginia Tech landing page: https://theroanoker.com/VT

Roland Lazenby's Exclusive sit-down with Coach Pry: https://theroanoker.com/VT/Coach-Pry-Exclusive/

Get a copy of the issue: https://leisuremedia360.lpages.co/get-our-special-vt-issue/

Roanoker Magazine YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@roanokermagazine

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And welcome back to the Boundary
Corner Podcast, a part of the

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College Huddle Network.
Along with my partner, Brian

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Siegler, I'm Curtis Wilson, and
this episode is brought to you

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by Doctor Jeremy Counts down at
the Counts Family Pharmacy, your

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friendly neighborhood pharmacy,
three O 1 S Main St. in

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Blacksburg.
We are also brought to you by

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So check out the links in our
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at Moments on the Morgue.
Brian, we got a couple very

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special guests on tonight for a
very special episode.

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So let's bring in our first
guest.

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She is the wonderful wife of Our
Music Man and the editor of the

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Roanoke Magazine.
Long time friend of ours

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colleague.
Long.

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Time.
Long time.

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Liz.
Long How are you, Liz?

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I'm well, how are you guys?
Oh, doing so good, doing so

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good.
We appreciate you coming on with

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us tonight.
And it's it's a special night.

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I feel like this is this has
been something that we've been

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really excited about and we've
been talking about for a couple

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weeks now.
So very excited to bring it to

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fruition.
Well, thank you guys for having

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me and of course for having our
guest that you're going to

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introduce here in a minute.
Really appreciate the time and

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really excited to chat about
what's going on for this

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episode.
So when the article we're going

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to be discussing tonight, when
will folks down in the New River

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Valley, those who have the role
in Okra magazine, when will they

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see this?
So it should be hitting

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subscriber mailboxes later on
this week, so August 18th

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through the 21st typically as
your USPS man arrives at your

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doorstep.
And then of course, they'll be

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hitting news stands over the
next week or two over that.

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So by the 1st week of September,
you should be able to go to all

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your local spots, not only your
Barnes and Nobles and your

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Kroger's, but also Crystal
Spring Grocery.

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You've got your Barnes and Noble
and Christiansburg, of course in

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New River Valley.
We're also going to have some

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special places in the New River
Valley and Blacksburg that are

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carrying it for us, especially
for this particular issue.

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So we'll list all that stuff on
our website and we'll be sure to

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share that cuz we're gonna have
this episode on our website too

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and make sure to link everything
for people.

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We appreciate that.
I did not know we were gonna be

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on the website, Ron, we're gonna
be on the website.

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We're gonna be on the website,
man, that's gonna be cool.

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So before we bring rolling on to
kind of talk through what this

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is all about, let's let's let's
throw the cover up here.

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Yeah, it's.
So exciting.

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It's such a great cover.
I'm so proud of this one.

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We just got a sample today in
our office.

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I'm holding my hands now.
This photo and the photos inside

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that you're going to see in the
feature are by the fabulous

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Aaron Spicer.
He's a local photographer here

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in Ronan, Virginia, and he does
photography all over.

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He has photographed so many
amazing people.

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And so we're very, very lucky
that he not only has the time

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and love for his local magazine,
his local city magazine, but of

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course for the time and the
effort and all the skill that

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went into photographing Coach
Pry and, and the amazing work

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that you're going to see I see
inside this issue.

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It's exciting stuff.
And I mean, I know when we got a

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little bit of an early sample
there and got to take a look at

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what was going on in preparation
for this and really a whole lot

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of insight and it looks like a
whole lot of work behind the

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scenes that go into this thing
that you put out every month.

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Yeah, so what's very interesting
about the magazine world,

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especially in terms of the
Roanoke magazine, we're

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bimonthly, which means it is a,
you know, it's a 2 month issue,

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so we have to plan pretty far in
advance.

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I actually tend to plan on
editorial about a year in

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advance.
So that gives you any idea of

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how long I've been wanting this
story to come to fruition.

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And so to give a little
background, you know, obviously

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we live here in Roanoke, VA.
We're surrounded by, you know,

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Virginia Tech Hokies and just
the love that all of the fans

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have for the school and the team
and especially the football

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team.
And so it's very easy for us to

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think about, you know, how
college football is going to go

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around here because go ACC,
right?

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So we thinking about the
magazine.

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We've been around for 52 years
and we have covered Virginia

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Tech football as well as other
Virginia Tech sports and of

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course, regional sports.
But we have covered Coach

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Beamer.
He's been on our cover at least

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once or twice.
We've had all sorts of different

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opportunities to interview and
cover the many, many years of

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great Virginia Tech football.
So about a year ago, I believe,

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honest to God, I think we we're
sitting here watching your

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podcast and I started thinking
about Virginia Tech football and

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the way you guys were talking
about it.

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I am a fan, of course, I love
sports, but I don't necessarily

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get the statistics the way you
do.

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But you know, what I can do is I
can figure out how to tell a

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story.
So I figured I would really love

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to dive in, not only to coach
pride and the football team, but

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you know, Jason and you guys and
everybody's been talking about

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the NIL and how all this comes
together in terms of a national

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story.
And so when I was thinking about

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how to do this story, there was
literally, I'm not even joking,

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literally really no other writer
in this world that I would

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rather have write this piece
than Mr. Roland Lazenby.

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Not only because of his
background and just the prolific

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writing that he's able to do,
but he's a local.

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He knows the stories.
He literally has worked in

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communications, you know, and
sports writing for, for decades

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for Virginia Tech, for our
region.

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And so he was the one and only
choice.

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And thank goodness because he
was so gracious in taking this

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piece on and being able to do it
in the midst of his busy

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schedule between documentaries
and sports writing and

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magazines.
So he's just not only a

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wonderful sports writer and a
great friend of mine, but just

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really generous with his time.
So huge shout out to him for

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covering this piece.
And I'm happy to talk more about

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the article.
But he's going to be such a

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wonderful interview and I can't
wait for your leader, listeners

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and readers and and viewers to
meet him and to learn more about

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him.
Absolutely, Liz.

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And you know, seeing the work
already.

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We we got a sneak preview to it.
The article was unbelievable.

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We just spent a few minutes
backstage with Roland.

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So we look forward to it.
And again, we really appreciate

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you getting us this straight up
getting us this, because I don't

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know if we would have landed in
any other way if one of a guy

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I've known since elementary
school's wife had not gotten

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with Roland and running this
unbelievable article.

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So we thank you for all of that.
And we, I don't know, it's, it's

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tough to say because, you know,
little connections in the world

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go a long way.
Right.

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I feel like it's Prismet truly.
And, and really I, I think that

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this story is so important, not
again, not only in terms of

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Virginia Tech football, but the
NIL applies to every college

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across the nation, right?
All college athletes, their,

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their families, the teammates,
the staff and sports and

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coaches, everybody that's
working together is involved in

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this story in some way.
And so this is not just a

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regional story, it is a national
story.

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And again, what better persons
tell this story and to care more

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about his insights and Roland
Lazenby perfection.

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All right.
Well, that's Brian.

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Yeah, let's Liz.
Talked him up twice.

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Let's let's do a little
introduction and bring him in

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here.
All right, Liz, we appreciate

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the time spending with you
tonight.

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Yes, thank you.
I hope readers can pick up a

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copy as soon as possible.
You're really going to enjoy

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this story.
And thank you so much for

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supporting your local city
magazine, your favorite college

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football podcast, and of course,
just readership in general.

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We really appreciate your
support.

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Thank you.
And go, Hokies, obviously go.

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Hokies.
All right, well, again, without

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further ado, let's let's let's
bring him on.

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It's Roland Lazenby, member of
the Department of Communication

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at both Virginia Tech and
Radford, writer of more than

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five dozen books on basketball
and football, including works on

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the Final Four, the Showtime
Lakers, the 90s, Bulls, Colt

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Legend, Johnny U, Tom Brady and
of course, the the run of late

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with Jerry West, Kobe Bryant,
and wrote the book on the life

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of Michael Jordan.
Here he is, guys.

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Rolling lays at me.
Boy, that was tough.

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She, you know, there's too many
people around here that know me.

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Anyway, she is sweet.
Yeah, this is great.

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Again, we, we, we've known Liz
for a while and she's definitely

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one of the best people that
there is out there.

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A while we've known her 20 plus
years, college, college

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classmates, married again, one
of our good friends and Roland.

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Before we even start the
questions and let you unload

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here, thank you for a giving us
your time.

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But I think, yeah, I tell you
man, I sell autographs too for a

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dollar.
So you guys are keeping me from

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my fortune.
There we go.

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But but but also, I think in the
coming weeks here, thank you for

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writing this piece because I
think you're going to be under

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uncovering a lot for Hokie
Nation and things.

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Maybe the way again, we've
gotten Privy to the article

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already, the way it was written,
I think some eyes are going to

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open up about what's going on
with the future of NIL transfer

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portal and just college sports
in general.

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And Speaking of that, let's
let's kick it right off.

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The collegiate arms race has
completely changed.

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It used to be the best
facilities, the nice jerseys,

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the swag packages, boosters
dropping thousands of dollars in

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kids cars and that's where they
went to school because that's

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who gave them the money.
And now we're compensation is

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pay or play.
When all of this started coming

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downhill, you've been writing
sports books.

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You mentioned you know you were
Georgetown in 85 when they cost

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you some money with a book deal.
But as you started seeing this

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come down, what is just your
thought on the change of college

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sports in general with the with
the thought of NIL?

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Well, as we all know, college
sports has been all sports has

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changed dramatically constantly
over a century and a half.

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However long you want to take
spectator sports in America

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back, you know, I've written a
lot of books.

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I wrote a history of Virginia
Tech football in 86.

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And the program had cratered
right then.

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So I think it may be sold 1000
copies.

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I don't know.
And but it left me determined

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that whatever I did in life, I
was going to try to write books

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and had a chance of selling.
And of course, right in the

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cratering of the Bill Dooley era
and some of the gross

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miscalculations there, here
comes Frankie Beamer there.

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We go.
And you know, I've, I've, I have

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to say, I've had a lot of fun
riding for the Roanoke or over

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the years.
Probably the most involving

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story for me was writing about
Frank's family.

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They, they, you know, he
explained to me one night in the

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hallway that they were the
Allens who shot up the

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courthouse in Carroll County,
New York Times.

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00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:07,240
All of that and, and the stain
on his family and his mother,

219
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,440
Herma, her brother, Frank's
uncle, who championed him.

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00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,960
And so his uncle finally things
got to him.

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00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:21,000
He committed suicide when Frank
was a junior at Virginia Tech.

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00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:27,720
And so it's a very hard story,
but a very important story is

223
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,520
The Who Frank was.
And this came out years ago on

224
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:35,200
the Roanoke are but the Roanoke
has given me nice opportunity to

225
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,440
to do stories that matter to me
and Virginia Tech does.

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00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:46,040
I went to VMI because I hated
Virginia Tech and you know, I

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00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:50,240
was helping my old man put
insulation in the ceiling of a

228
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:59,560
cabin we had and listening to
the 1969 Tech VMI game.

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00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:09,480
And the year before Tech had wax
BMI 70 to 10 and VMI or 70 to

230
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:14,840
12.
It was 70 to 12 and VMI won in

231
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:19,640
6912 to 10.
And not only did I, I had it's

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00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,480
the only college I applied to.
I had terrible grades and but I

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00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,200
got in, I had good boards.
But anyway, I got to play

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00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:33,080
football at VMI as a walk on and
so that I was tell my grandsons

235
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,560
that was my Super Bowl, but also
getting to play, I believe in

236
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:42,720
the last Shrine game between the
back then freshmen weren't

237
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,240
eligible.
We scrimmaged varsity four days

238
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:52,080
a week, but to scrimmage against
the Tech football team and, and

239
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:56,880
you know, we arrived in one bus,
We had like 45 on the roster and

240
00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:01,400
Tech gave I believe 90.
Scott, there was no limit on

241
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:06,640
scholarships and Tech soaked up
every available player.

242
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:13,560
That's one reason I'm sure I was
a walk on and they had, they

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00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,480
gave something like 90 freshman
scholarship that year.

244
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:24,080
So it it was an object lesson to
me in the the great lust of the

245
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:31,520
Hokies for what would you call
it, prominence, dominance, I

246
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,680
don't know, but they've always
had that.

247
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:42,320
And of course, I taught at Tech
11 years from 99 pivotal years

248
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:47,000
in the terms of the program.
I taught there full time from 99

249
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:51,040
to 2010.
And I taught media writing to,

250
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,560
you know, 120 sophomores a year
a semester.

251
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,520
So I, I, I love Tech.
I was there through the

252
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:03,640
difficult times.
But the important thing is the

253
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,800
whole dynamic that everyone
knows.

254
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:12,040
I mean, what a wonderful thing
to have Metallica.

255
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,280
That was a religious experience.
Yes, it was.

256
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:24,200
And you know, the first team,
they had a concert to raise

257
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,320
money for the first very first
team.

258
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,200
Faculty members, wife of soprano
gave a concert and they gave all

259
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,920
the proceeds to the football
team.

260
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:37,760
So there's tradition there.
And you know, the early days,

261
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,680
everybody showed up in horse and
buggies with the school colors.

262
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,080
I don't think they were Chicago
maroon and burnt orange at

263
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,680
first, but I could be wrong.
Black and Gray, black, black

264
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:49,400
and.
Gray if I.

265
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:56,400
Recall, Yeah.
And so this runs deep in the

266
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,160
Southwest Virginia hills that we
all love.

267
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,359
This is serious business and the
economy.

268
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:10,560
I mean, Virginia Tech is such a
generator from all the medical

269
00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:16,240
apparatus and research and
operation in Roanoke.

270
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,760
Just so many things so important
to this state.

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00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,920
And yet, you know, I'm in.
I've edited Lindy's pro

272
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:33,440
basketball annual and Al
Birmingham for 31 years now few

273
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,600
years back, Lindy who owns a
he's a he's a lawyer who never

274
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,560
practiced law.
He publishes.

275
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:46,280
He's University of Alabama
graduate and he had me come.

276
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,240
He says you've never seen
anything like this.

277
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:53,120
I said Lindy, I'm I'm really had
a lucky life covering the NBA

278
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:55,120
and spent the 90s with the
Bulls.

279
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,840
What are you talking about?
I go down there, I've never seen

280
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,280
anything like the University of
Alabama.

281
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:05,480
You know, they got acres and
acres of tailgating.

282
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:11,480
It's I mean, it would make Tex
Saturday look like a country

283
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,040
picnic.
It is huge.

284
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:21,520
I mean, you the scope of it and
you know, they have maximized

285
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:28,800
the whole football mojo thing in
terms of out of state tuition.

286
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:34,960
They they rake in 10's and 10s
of millions a year to the point

287
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,080
and they're all there to coast
sitting at football stadium on

288
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:43,960
Saturdays to the point that 50%
of their students at the

289
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:48,320
University of Alabama are from
some place other than Alabama.

290
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,120
They have more out of state
tuition than in state tuition.

291
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:59,960
Now Virginia Tech has always
been, it's had a a long term

292
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:04,280
tie.
You know Hank Crisp, Virginia

293
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:09,800
Tech's one arm football player
from back in the 20s Hank Crisp

294
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:14,920
coached at Alabama for years.
Frank Mosley was Bear Bryant's

295
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:19,760
roommate, Frank Mosley who was
the coach and then the AD at

296
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:26,600
Tech and Alabama and Virginia
Tech went at each other.

297
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:32,640
And so Virginia Tech with Vick's
appearance in 99 right when I I

298
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:38,400
started teaching there.
Man, that mojo of that out of

299
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:43,640
state tuition, which is vital in
this age.

300
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:48,840
Higher education is challenged
like never before.

301
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,080
And I don't want to get into the
political factors of that, but

302
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,560
it is challenged for a variety
of reasons.

303
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,120
And Virginia Tech has a sweet
mojo.

304
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,040
People love to come down there
and get crazy.

305
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,680
They love to jump up and down.
They like to do that whole

306
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,120
thing.
ESPN loves to put it on their

307
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,120
broadcast.
It is a mojo.

308
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:14,560
Those kids see it, and that's
sweet.

309
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:22,600
That booger fat out of state
tuition helps drive the whole

310
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:28,000
thing.
And if you can do all that

311
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:33,840
jumping around, if you will make
all that noise and get all that

312
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,120
brouhaha going, you got to have
you a football team.

313
00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:48,440
There we go and it is what what
the price tag come up.

314
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,360
We're looking at, Wit said today
He needs another what, 6570

315
00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:00,600
million on top of the 122 that
he's already got for the for the

316
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,040
program.
Well, he's running a pro sports

317
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:09,520
franchise like every every other
school is and that is not you

318
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,840
know, if you had that kind of
money somebody when I was

319
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,560
teaching their VM is I mean VP
is entire foundation was 300

320
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:22,400
million and then 9/11 hitting it
dropped 60 or 80 million.

321
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:27,080
It's now over a billion.
But that's money to spend on

322
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:31,720
research.
And you know, if you raise $70

323
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,400
million, the idea you'd put it
into some of this hokey stone

324
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,760
you guys got on your beautiful
podcast, you'd put it into all

325
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,240
kinds of developmental things,
including some athletics,

326
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,840
obviously.
But you raised $70 million.

327
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:54,600
It's going to be gone.
I won't say months, but it's

328
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,960
going to be gone pretty quickly
because you're paying pro

329
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:04,040
salaries and you're now tech.
Brent Price been very crafty

330
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,480
about what he pays and what he
bids.

331
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,800
They found talent to compete.
But it's my personal opinion.

332
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,080
I went down there.
I didn't even ask a lot of

333
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,560
questions till I got to sit down
with him.

334
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,880
I just wanted to watch him and
watch everybody, watch the

335
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,200
players, watch the media,
question them.

336
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:32,880
I just wanted to look at
everybody and I came away prize

337
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,240
a pretty cool customer.
You know, when he talked to me

338
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,200
sort of first, one of the first
things he did, he sort of

339
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,320
acknowledged under his breath
and we got to coach a little bit

340
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,280
any you know, all the great
coaches.

341
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,680
I've had a lot of luck.
I spent the 90s with the Bulls

342
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,520
with Phil Jackson and Tex winner
and the great coaches are

343
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:01,800
realist to the core.
They that that they're very fact

344
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,400
based.
It's not a it's not an I

345
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,120
apologize for that daggone
phone, not to hide it somewhere,

346
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,280
but but it you know, the great
coaches are very fact based.

347
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,760
And I I had to I had to see is
he real?

348
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:23,360
And he is he knows.
I think the reset button is not

349
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:28,160
what it used to be because the
there's so many moving parts,

350
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:34,280
the coaching college major
college football today, it's not

351
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,840
a three or four year window.
Now you can see if somebody is a

352
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,680
total disaster.
You can see that sometimes in

353
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:47,120
two seasons.
But this is this learning curve

354
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:52,080
has been substantial.
And but the other big reason I

355
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:57,520
don't think that this school can
afford to unless the season just

356
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,200
falls flat on its face on its
face, and I don't think it will.

357
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,720
I don't think they can afford
that.

358
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,640
If they got 70 million, they're
certainly not thinking about

359
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,400
spending 5 to 8 million on
another coach.

360
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,680
You, you got to put that money
in players.

361
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,680
You can't put that money
anywhere else.

362
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,240
And and, you know, somebody's
going to have to come in here

363
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,720
and learn the culture to make
this thing work.

364
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:24,480
Yeah.
And let's talk about that a

365
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,080
little bit because you know,
you've hit on pride a good

366
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,400
amount here.
And kind of what were your

367
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,840
initial takeaways were for that?
Let's talk about pride at

368
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,440
Virginia Tech.
What is kind of a benchmark for

369
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,960
success in this NIL era for a
Brent Pryor regime at Virginia

370
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,760
Tech?
Well, it's got a coach better.

371
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,560
They need to win more games that
they really have zeroed in on

372
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,600
winning close games.
What you got to do?

373
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:57,120
I mean, I'm not, I'm, you know,
if you want a coach to be a

374
00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:00,240
realist, you got to be a realist
too.

375
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:07,280
And looking at the program, but
I think they got a clear window

376
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:12,920
to, I don't know, at least above
500, maybe eight wins.

377
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,440
They might get another win, they
might not.

378
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,800
But I will tell you this, the
other parallel is these new

379
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,320
coordinators.
I think there's a really good

380
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,600
mojo with them.
I don't think it's going to.

381
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:38,840
I mean, it is rapid assembly you
are building all the first of

382
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,560
all, a lot of the values have
been drained off of college

383
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,760
athletics.
And so that's why the story's

384
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,200
called Love and the Time of
Neil, which is a take off on the

385
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,280
Nobel Prize winning novel, Love
and the Time of Cholera.

386
00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:02,080
This is sort of a collar.
But you know, I just wanted to,

387
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,560
I wanted, I wanted to look
closely as these guys who stayed

388
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,960
here were being interviewed.
And then I wanted to look at the

389
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:18,800
guys who had come in via the
port and you know, I everything

390
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:23,360
this country's ever done,
whether it's D-Day or whatever

391
00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:30,920
has been 17/18/1920 year old
kids, every major thing this

392
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:36,360
country's ever accomplished,
it's been on those kinds of

393
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:38,920
fresh faces, people who are
willing.

394
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:45,840
And that's what I absolutely
loved about teaching at Virginia

395
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:51,000
Tech.
I had the most amazing kids.

396
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,640
And I mean, I'm not being
nostalgic.

397
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,120
They were just amazing and they,
they're great kids.

398
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:06,240
It is a great place that really
attracts fantastic young people.

399
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:14,280
It's had its heart breaks, but
this is an existential moment,

400
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:20,600
which is what I am saying in the
magazine piece because there is,

401
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:28,200
it's not a delicate mojo, but it
is a well balanced mojo.

402
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:35,320
You have got to sustain what
Frankie Beamer and Bud Foster

403
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,720
established.
There's a, there's a grit.

404
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:44,240
It's there.
Pry gets it, Coach Price, all

405
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,800
those coaches do.
It is a culture.

406
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,440
You know a lot.
I'm an NBA guy, so there's a lot

407
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,600
made of heat culture.
Well, hokey culture.

408
00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:01,600
It it is a thing that matters
deeply now that that goes on at

409
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,720
a lot of schools.
But I, I don't care about a lot

410
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,400
of the schools.
I, I, I care about this one.

411
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,600
It is the region I've lived in
my whole life.

412
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:18,160
It is the place that feeds us
all or helps to feed us all.

413
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:24,600
And so the football team is
important to bringing those

414
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,160
students.
It's important to the

415
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,080
experience.
Is it $70 million eaten up in

416
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,800
five years or four years or
three years?

417
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:38,640
Important.
I don't see how that's, I mean,

418
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,640
I went to Blacksburg this spring
because Coach Sands made this

419
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,600
comment almost on his side that
it's not sustainable.

420
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,480
And the truth is he's absolutely
correct.

421
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:58,960
This is not sustainable unless,
you know, when, when Frankie had

422
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:04,720
his trouble, he had to fire and
change his assistant coaches and

423
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:09,240
that changed the, the arc of his
narrative at Virginia Tech.

424
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,280
He had his heart in the right
place.

425
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,320
And so the evaluation's going to
have to be, are these the right

426
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,480
guys?
Can we afford to, to be sort of

427
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,600
cavalier about it?
You know, I, I will say my

428
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,720
observation about the hokey fan
base.

429
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,720
I, I, I dealt with a lot of
schools because I've done a lot

430
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,640
of projects with a lot of
schools.

431
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,360
Duke, Louisville, University of
Florida, the list goes on.

432
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,760
Billy Packer and I work together
on a lot of things back.

433
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,160
I got to know Billy in the 80s
when I first, when I did my

434
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,600
first book on Ralph Sampson and
Billy and I ended up doing 5

435
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,520
books together and Billy is a
money guy.

436
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,360
The first lesson he taught me
was keep your money in your

437
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:05,320
pocket and let people give you
your work to do what you're

438
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:10,960
doing.
And Billy was just all over

439
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,840
college athletics and the
economics of it.

440
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:21,040
And I will tell you that it's
been a battle.

441
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,880
I don't have to tell any hokey
fan.

442
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,680
It's been a battle to to get in
the right league in the right

443
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,800
position.
And we hit that sweet spot.

444
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,920
That's water under bridge now.
But it is instructive.

445
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,080
And so you got to separate it as
water under the bridge, but you

446
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:46,440
got to look at what it is.
You got to find players and I

447
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,720
think these guys are suited to
do that.

448
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,600
They haven't shown that they
can't find players.

449
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,520
What they've got to get better
at is figuring it out.

450
00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:01,720
And so I just don't think it's a
one year window on this deal

451
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,600
because of that.
I think you're going to get the

452
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,560
they got so many they got it's
any bidder or you know, one of

453
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:13,480
the assets of the whole hokey
culture is Andy Bitter's been

454
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,680
here that that is a sharp dude.
I watched him work and there a

455
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:25,720
lot of those guys in media are
sharp, but Andy is is a real he

456
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:32,760
just leads by how he does it And
he he pointed out that they had

457
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,320
more four players in the portal
this year than they've had in

458
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,120
all their years combined.
It's true.

459
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,800
Think about those moving parts.
I've coached enough.

460
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,920
I've had a lot of fun coaching
over the years, starting with

461
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,400
being a 24 year old varsity head
wrestling coach at Blacksburg

462
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,720
High School where I had great
wrestlers.

463
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:03,960
But but the whole thing is
constructing the kind of culture

464
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,640
that Virginia Tech's going to
need to prosper, is going to

465
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,040
take first cool heads in the fan
base.

466
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,840
I think you got cool heads in
place.

467
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,760
And the Hokies haven't been
known for cool heads.

468
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,240
I mean, they have.
They're no worse than anybody

469
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:29,040
else, don't get me wrong.
But that's not how it works

470
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,400
anymore.
And you know, the Hokies, they,

471
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:38,480
they, Al McGuire had a say, a
saying, he's got the, he's got

472
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,080
the shortest arms and the
deepest pockets.

473
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:48,560
And you know, they, they just,
they just don't go reaching for

474
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,720
the damn money.
Now, now, don't get me wrong,

475
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,880
there are donors and people who
love Virginia Tech and have done

476
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,480
a lot.
This is a lot.

477
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,280
Yeah.
Let's.

478
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,200
Let's pull it back a little bit
because one thing I want to talk

479
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,480
about is, you know, especially
looking at your tenure in

480
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,400
Blacksburg, you know, starting
with 99 there and thinking about

481
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,520
how college athletics has
changed, particularly in that

482
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,040
kind of 2010 kind of pivot
window.

483
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,840
And especially once NIL came
along.

484
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,320
Did Virginia Tech as an
institution and as an athletic

485
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:31,320
department do enough to
capitalize on the success of

486
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,080
Michael Vick and that national
title run and the buoyed success

487
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,840
of those early years in the ACC?
Because the leading up to me

488
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:45,680
that we were behind from there
and it only got worse because of

489
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,160
the steps we didn't take in the
2000s.

490
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:54,440
Roland, before you say, but even
before that, 199395 Sugar Bowl

491
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,760
beating up to 99.
And then Roland, you were there

492
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:03,280
for the subsequent years.
Ten wins, ACC titles, big bowl

493
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:09,120
games.
To Brian's point, did you tell

494
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,239
how you feel?
You want me to tell me?

495
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:11,480
Shut the hell up.
I'm fine with it.

496
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,520
Did the administration drop the
ball?

497
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,560
Because at that point in time,
we were top 10 every single

498
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,840
year.
We had players going to the NFL.

499
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:25,440
We were a brand and I will never
forget.

500
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,520
This is one of the big moments
for me because I missed the

501
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,080
game.
One of our dear friends who

502
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:36,040
passed away a few years ago,
2003 Miami was a spectacle on

503
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,199
ESPN.
It was one of the best overlay

504
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:44,440
production of Sandman very early
in its infancy and I could have

505
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,000
been in North End zone.
I had an insurance payment I had

506
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,679
to make.
Then I made it and I couldn't

507
00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:50,719
drive the Blacksburg because I
was a great college kid.

508
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,239
God bless Brian Wilkerson.
So he found me a ticket, but I

509
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,679
could not make it.
But did we drop it?

510
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,520
Because some schools get that
window and they literally just

511
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,560
run.
I don't care who we piss off.

512
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:07,600
I don't care who we make mad.
We are one of the best college

513
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,480
football programs.
We are going to go get every

514
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,720
single part that's ours, money
included.

515
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,200
Sorry I get a little bit
sometimes.

516
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,200
Well, I would say that we
probably danced in then zone a

517
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:27,240
little bit.
It was a long road to glory when

518
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:30,960
I mean having to having to
listen to all that bullshit from

519
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,480
all the ACC folks all those
years.

520
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,960
And if Mudkat Saunders hadn't
found found a way with Steve

521
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,920
Jarding to threaten the damn
governor, they wouldn't have

522
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,440
gotten to the.
ACC.

523
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,120
It's true.
It's so true.

524
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:54,560
And so I think in some ways it
doesn't matter.

525
00:35:55,720 --> 00:36:03,680
It I mean, the only thing that
matters right now is the road

526
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,920
ahead.
Now, were the mistakes made?

527
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,560
Yeah.
Well, there always are.

528
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:17,000
Yeah.
You know, maybe there was

529
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,720
another coach out there they
could have hired besides Pry,

530
00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:27,000
who maybe was, but they hired a
pretty good coach.

531
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,160
I just don't think he ever
totally bought in here.

532
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,880
I could be wrong about that.
Got a prior for one day.

533
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:42,720
Yeah, but I'm saying they maybe
could have hired, you know, but

534
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,960
it's tough to hire coaches.
You know, the thing I look at

535
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:53,760
and personnel, whether it's
players or coaches, You Jerry

536
00:36:53,760 --> 00:37:00,600
West told me I was sitting with
him in 89 and I asked him

537
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:06,600
because he he was coming up and
he knew Magic was actually it

538
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,840
was 91 because Magic had already
been diagnosed.

539
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,720
This right after that I was
doing a project and I asked him

540
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:17,440
how he was going to find the
next magic and he said you know

541
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:22,480
the hard part is you can see
what people can do on the floor

542
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,840
what a player can do.
You can see what an executive

543
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:32,240
has done, the kinds of
experiences, but what you can't

544
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:42,200
read are their hearts.
And so I, I just sort of went to

545
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:47,640
Blacksburg in my own sort of
unscientific hillbilly way just

546
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,640
to sort of go up there and take
an inventory on the arts.

547
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,840
That's really what a lot of this
is about, because it's going to

548
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:03,400
require hearts and wisdom and
all that good stuff and, you

549
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,520
know, pride.
Some good answers for me.

550
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,240
You know, he's he's not, he was
a wrestler.

551
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:11,120
You know, you're out there alone
by yourself.

552
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,000
As how I explained it, I
understood exactly.

553
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,320
You know, it's you and what you
got to get done.

554
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:28,200
And I just think the
circumstances are such.

555
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:34,360
And I, I, I in the article, I
say the circumstances are such.

556
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,360
You may want to fire Brent Pride
for this season.

557
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:42,640
And I said, you know, go ahead,
be my guest.

558
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,120
But you better look around on a
landscape and find you some oil

559
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,680
wells in the fan base.
And the last thing I said, my

560
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:54,600
last piece of advice is never
blink at a mirage.

561
00:38:56,720 --> 00:39:00,520
You can lose everything you
think you've got in your field

562
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:06,040
of vision in an instant.
I think they're making progress.

563
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,200
I don't think there's a more
thorough guy than Phil Steele.

564
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,560
He thinks so.
I was just and I work for Lindy,

565
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,560
so if I'm touting Phil Steele,
you know that I'm just doing it

566
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,400
on but excuse.
Me, I apologize.

567
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,840
You're good.
But I, you know, there are

568
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:31,560
limits to each and every one of
us in terms of perspective on

569
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,280
this thing.
I think what we do have to read

570
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,080
is the seriousness of the
changes.

571
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:44,480
And ESPN has, you know, has made
the moves it's going to make.

572
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,480
Everybody's gambling on the
future.

573
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,200
Nobody knows what's going to
happen.

574
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,360
I've had to do 100 Zoom
interviews in the last year with

575
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,680
Rick Welts, who's now the
president of The Mavericks.

576
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,440
Before that, it was the
president of the Warriors.

577
00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:04,000
Before that, it was the
president of the Sons.

578
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:11,080
And the NBA just got $100
billion in their media rights

579
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:17,800
deal and their their network
ratings and cable ratings are.

580
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,320
A little iffy or a lot if he did
some.

581
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,480
And so I was asking him how does
that happen?

582
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,040
And his answer, he's a really
bright guy.

583
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,440
He said.
You know, it's all about 23 year

584
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:38,040
old eyeballs.
Everybody is is trying to it's

585
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,800
like an Oklahoma land race for
the future in media.

586
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,160
These people are paying for all
these NBA rights.

587
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,120
They they're not guaranteed
that's going to deliver them to

588
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,440
the promised land, but that's
their best clear path.

589
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,080
And so that's sort of the kind
of decision because each of the

590
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,360
schools is in the same
circumstance.

591
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,320
You could pad your schedule back
in the day.

592
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:08,920
I mean, everybody needs a break,
everybody wants some tasty cakes

593
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,240
on the schedule.
You know, you drink a little

594
00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:16,400
more on game day, you, you know,
your anxiety levels low.

595
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:22,720
But that ain't happening now
because ESPN is in a life or

596
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:29,440
death struggle itself.
And so they have turned all of

597
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,680
the force of their power on the
2 super conferences while

598
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,800
waiting to see if this thing
realigns into some other

599
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,280
concoction.
But what we know about the

600
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:48,800
richest and the strongest?
I mean, this is an eternal

601
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,040
truth.
They ain't giving it up.

602
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,960
They are not giving up any of
this money that that the SECU.

603
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,320
What was Charlton Heston said
about gun rights for my cold

604
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,760
dead hands?
Well, the same applies to nil

605
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:09,120
money to to, you know, all of
that network broadcast power

606
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,480
money that the SEC and the Big
10 get.

607
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:17,880
Hell, they split up the oldest
one of the oldest conferences in

608
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:22,240
America, Distinguished
Conference in the in the Pacific

609
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,480
and spread it all over the
place.

610
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:30,000
We are running around our elbow
to get to our ass to have play

611
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,440
games on the West Coast.
That's not sustainable either.

612
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:40,320
But we do have to match up with
those slightly relegated teams

613
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:45,600
because if you're worried about
Virginia Tech, take a look over

614
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:51,120
your shoulder at the ACC.
It's they're coming for them.

615
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:57,000
So that's a that leads into this
question and and you throw what

616
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,120
you think's going to happen in
the next, I don't know.

617
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:04,280
They'll say ACC contract ends in
2035, ten years.

618
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,360
What's going to happen just with
the, the conference in general?

619
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,800
Are we going to go to two Super
leagues, 28 teams in the SEC, 28

620
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,080
teams in the Big 10?
Is someone going to step in and

621
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:22,160
say, hey, we all get together,
we're worth a hell of a lot more

622
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,840
money than we are apart?
Or is it somewhere in between?

623
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,000
What do you see?
Cause 'cause you've written and

624
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,080
seen sports and Senator, like
you said, Rick Welts, the former

625
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,280
executive president of the, the
current president of The

626
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,320
Mavericks, former of the
Warriors.

627
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,400
You've been around some of these
guys like that, that have

628
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,200
visions and have thoughts.
What do you think happens?

629
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:50,720
Well, the, the happy ending is
what you just described.

630
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:57,920
The, the problem is that goes
against human nature.

631
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,440
And I, I don't think anybody,
we're in a competitive business

632
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,160
that's competition is about
stepping on the other guy's neck

633
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,520
and keeping your foot there
until he's gone.

634
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:15,520
And that is what it is.
And it is the white collar crowd

635
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:20,840
in each of these universities.
They are hungry for that baby.

636
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,000
And that's, that's, that's what
feeds it.

637
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:31,240
That is competition in America.
And so the happy ending is that

638
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:37,000
we get everybody lined up and
whatever, 405060.

639
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,160
You know, I've seen Virginia
Tech listed anywhere from 50, I

640
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:50,080
believe to 31 in, in various
rankings this season headed into

641
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:55,080
things.
I think if they somehow arranged

642
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,600
to get 80 teams in football.
But you know, we've just had a

643
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:04,600
whole bunch of folks just jump
into D1, including Liberty.

644
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,840
And Liberty is probably the best
suited of any school in the

645
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,520
state just to keep shoveling
cash in its sports programs

646
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:16,600
because they, they, they just
have that apparatus for raking

647
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,960
in that money.
I mean, they're not just fans,

648
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:25,280
they are religious folks.
And so there's nothing wrong

649
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,240
with that.
They're they're, they give to

650
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:31,080
the place they love.
That's how it all works.

651
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,240
So the happy ending, yeah, they
sort this out.

652
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:41,120
They, you know, that still makes
a lot of things probably go

653
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,640
away.
I, I I hate to see ACC

654
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,280
basketball go away.
There are things that are near

655
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:49,080
and dear.
They are.

656
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:57,760
They are things Change shouldn't
just obliterate culture.

657
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:04,320
Now change does move on from
culture, but the culture,

658
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:10,360
college football, the culture of
the various conferences, that

659
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:18,640
resonates a lot of things, but
nothing resonates like the cold

660
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,000
cash.
Not at all.

661
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,160
I love what you said there a
second ago about the goal is to

662
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,000
squeeze and kill all your
competition.

663
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,840
But the thing about sports is
you have to have competitors.

664
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,160
If you kill all your
competition, who's going to turn

665
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,520
on the TV anymore?
Who's going to say, hey, do you

666
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,160
want to watch Ohio State play
Texas for the sixth time this

667
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,880
year?
Well, no, I've watched the first

668
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:47,480
one.
I'm I'm done with it.

669
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,680
And I think that's what a lot of
people think could happen

670
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:57,440
because right now we're in this
unbelievable bubble for college

671
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,720
football and, and the whole
thing you talk about that cash,

672
00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:05,200
eventually you're going to kill
the wrong person or the wrong

673
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,400
school and people are going to
start turning off the.

674
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,200
Television, the wrong
conference.

675
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:16,560
And I and I think, you know, in
our discussion on and off

676
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:21,160
camera, yeah, I've talked about
reasons to articulate hope.

677
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,840
And that's a big part of what
I'm doing and looking at this.

678
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,760
And you just articulated in
excellent fashion one of the

679
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:35,560
biggest pieces of hope.
ESPN likes the Hokies probably

680
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:39,080
love them.
I don't know if a corporation

681
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:44,160
can't, but I think so, I think.
And so there are adjustments to

682
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,080
be made.
It's going to require a lot of

683
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,120
wisdom.
It's going to require a lot of

684
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:55,040
political skill.
So far, the ACC is thrown enough

685
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,920
punches and tough enough to hold
on.

686
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,000
I don't think the PAC 10, PAC
12, whatever it is, did that

687
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:08,160
they they gave up the money got
going and that there's going to

688
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,040
be some defections.
But what is going to be left and

689
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,040
how's it going to be spread
around?

690
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:22,040
I don't know because it's it's
beyond what each of us can see

691
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,720
and what and the huge thing
clouding it is the amount of

692
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:31,080
money it takes for these
colleges operates pro sports

693
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,040
teams.
And it certainly means the death

694
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:43,560
of a lot more minor sports.
And you know that you're going

695
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:48,800
to have people making pretty
good money playing football and

696
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:53,880
basketball, and you're going to
have a lot of people doing

697
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:59,880
excellent things in sports.
But we've now let the the I'm

698
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:01,560
not a big fan of the Supreme
Court.

699
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,720
They've just made decisions that
have wrecked American culture in

700
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:08,160
my mind.
And they are holding position.

701
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:14,000
And I think this is one of them.
I don't know where we get sanity

702
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:21,440
on this, but whatever is created
is ultimately going to end up at

703
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,120
the Supreme Court again, and
it's not going to be able to

704
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:26,800
infringe.
I don't think they're going to

705
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:35,160
back off of infringing on the
name, image, likeness rights of

706
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,080
these young people playing
sports.

707
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:42,720
You know that all centered on my
man here, Jordan, the the NBA

708
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:45,400
was used to take him was getting
ready to take the name image

709
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,520
likeness rights and Jordan's
agent very quickly negotiated he

710
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:54,000
is ahead of that.
And they they weren't able to

711
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,920
commandeer and pull Jordan away
from the great wealth the market

712
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:03,760
was ready to bestow upon him.
It took him a long time to get

713
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:08,200
paid his work as a player.
But off the court, you know, it

714
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,920
was a different story.
And so some of these players,

715
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,560
you know, probably another
Jordan or two coming along that

716
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:22,240
are somehow going to win the
lottery of the culture.

717
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:27,080
They're going to step up.
Boy, I hope he's in Parisburg

718
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:32,440
right now.
Wouldn't that be a blessing?

719
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,360
Well, you never know, but you
know, I, I have, I have

720
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,840
marvelled over a variety of
coaches.

721
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:43,240
We'll get a lot of speed on the
Dang on roster and they pretend

722
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:46,440
like it's not there.
I, I don't know if the speed is

723
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:51,480
deeply flawed somehow.
If if I ever had chance to to

724
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:57,040
really sit down and annoy the
shit out of a coach, I would ask

725
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,360
those kinds of questions.
That would be a good question

726
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,080
because I think in particular,
just looking at this past

727
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:07,120
combine where you had, you know,
your your running back and your,

728
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,880
your wide receiver go out there
and you know, put top 340 times

729
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:15,200
on the board against the best
competition in in the country.

730
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,240
And you know, you didn't always
see that necessarily come out on

731
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:20,920
game day.
It it would come out and burst,

732
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,800
but I think it wasn't always
maximized by the offensive staff

733
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,440
in particular last year to take
advantage of some of those speed

734
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:33,200
elements of those players.
I, I will say from my years of

735
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:40,080
coaching, it takes a while to
know what you have, but you, you

736
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:44,640
got, you can't let that go on.
You have got to really.

737
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:51,160
And I think changing
coordinators is a huge thing and

738
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,000
I think I do believe we're going
to see that this season.

739
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:59,200
You you have people who are
actually coming in.

740
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,320
It's one thing to have a first
time head coach who's been a

741
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:07,560
great coordinator, but when
you're coming in and your roles

742
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:13,160
are filled by people who are
also learning on the job, that's

743
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,040
very hard to do because, and I'm
dealing with that.

744
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,360
We're making a LeBron James
documentary and it's with a

745
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:23,040
Canadian film company and it's
it's we've had a lot of fun.

746
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:27,400
We shot 110 hours of film.
But we we've gotten a point in

747
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:32,480
the road where these guys are
really looking at each other a

748
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:39,360
loss for a loss for what to do.
And so that's the course of

749
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,560
human events.
I do think surprise, a smart

750
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,200
tough guy.
I think his heart's in the right

751
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:50,240
place.
I think he has, you know, all

752
00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:52,200
that he told me all the coaches
are talking.

753
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,400
He he says it's a wild, Wild
West.

754
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:56,640
We can't keep doing it like
this.

755
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:58,240
And that's what they've all
said.

756
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:05,760
And, you know, I think you're
going to be lucky to hold on to

757
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:12,000
a coach because it is crazy.
I mean, you barely have time to

758
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,280
learn the names, much less
evaluate to talent.

759
00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:17,560
Now they're working.
They've gotten that.

760
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,320
They've been given more time.
They are paying players like

761
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,600
pros, and they are working
beyond what the pros are doing

762
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:29,280
in a lot of regards.
And so they got eyeballs on them

763
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:35,800
more.
But what drama?

764
00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:42,160
Let me ask this before we move
on.

765
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:44,920
So you know, we talked about Pry
there.

766
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:49,800
You know, we titled this this
episode, right Man, Wrong time.

767
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,840
When we look at Brent Pry and we
look at the way and the position

768
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,760
that Virginia Tech's in, we look
at the potential realignment.

769
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:05,080
We look at NIL in the extra 70 +
1,000,000 that Whit Babcock says

770
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:08,600
he needs.
What are the chances that

771
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,840
Virginia Tech gets left out in
this next shuffle?

772
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,840
And if they do, is that a death
sentence from from a long term

773
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,800
competitive standpoint?
Well, I'll tell you this,

774
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:24,240
they're still jumping.
That's item number one.

775
00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:28,840
There's still absolute joy on
game day.

776
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,240
They're still jumping.
They got to have a little more

777
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:34,400
to jump about.
If they get a little more, I

778
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,000
think they'll jump higher.
I really do.

779
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:42,720
And I think this I said it's the
most consequential season in the

780
00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:47,200
history of the program.
And I don't think that it if if

781
00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:54,880
I mean, there is no way that
that Miami game that was that

782
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:59,600
was basically the ACC in a
shitty they had a school.

783
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,520
No, it is.
It was just no, they had a

784
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,320
school that had a chance.
They've got to make noise.

785
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,880
They're going to have stature.
The ACCS like ESPN, everybody

786
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:14,560
else, they're in survival mode.
And so they had they had to just

787
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,920
abandoned their rules and give
the game to Miami because that

788
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:21,360
was their best bet for the
College Football Playoff in that

789
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,840
moment.
Now that that didn't but that

790
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,600
that decided that game because
there's no way.

791
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,880
And they admitted to him there's
no way Coach Prague, you know,

792
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:44,640
went back at him a good bit.
I think that Virginia Tech is up

793
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:46,160
against it.
Obviously.

794
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,880
I think they've got a batch of
players in here.

795
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:55,680
They got some nice players and
the other bottom line here, in

796
00:55:55,680 --> 00:56:00,440
addition to the the things you
mentioned, it's a great place.

797
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:06,160
It's a beautiful place.
I I saw Pry.

798
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:09,760
I saw this video of Pry.
He was like a kid with

799
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,840
Metallica.
Did y'all see that video?

800
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,400
Oh yeah.
You know, he's out here.

801
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,600
He's listening.
He'll show up at a Jared Stout

802
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:24,920
band show.
He is he's he's a genuine

803
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,040
spirit.
Now that may end up being

804
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,120
tragically wrong.
I don't think so, because he is

805
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:33,360
tough as nails too.
And he talks constantly about

806
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,880
hard conversations.
So these guys are getting paid.

807
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,360
These are not children anymore.
These are pro athletes.

808
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,480
And so they, you know, pro the
pro game.

809
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:49,280
I, I, I enjoyed going to cover
in the NBAI didn't like talking

810
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:52,800
to college athletes.
I didn't think it was fair.

811
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,600
They're kids.
When I, I worked for the old

812
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:02,640
Blacksburg Son, I quit my
coaching and teaching job to

813
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,960
become a writer and I got hired
as a sports editor of Blacksburg

814
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,000
Son.
I covered Dooley's first season

815
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:16,200
and I you'd interview those guys
and they're all going yes Sir,

816
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:20,320
no Sir.
And and I, I was 24 at the time.

817
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:26,480
So but, but the thing I liked
about the NBA, if they didn't,

818
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:28,960
each guy you talked to was a
corporation.

819
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,080
If they didn't, if they didn't
like and you talk about

820
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:38,080
testosterone, the NBA was quite
a experience and having done it

821
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,840
40 years, they they didn't like
your question.

822
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:42,920
They tell you just to take a
long walk.

823
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,400
They I mean, they wouldn't say
it like that and, and, and they

824
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,440
were there.
They're empowered people.

825
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:54,760
And so there there's part of
this thing that's pretty good.

826
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:58,800
The opportunity for young people
is good.

827
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:03,440
I don't resent somebody changing
jobs to get more money.

828
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:09,320
It it it sort of cracks the egg
on the falsehood of, you know,

829
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,240
we're doing it for the old alma
mater here.

830
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:14,840
They're doing it because they're
getting paid.

831
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:18,560
And guess what?
A lot of them need to Jack, They

832
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:24,280
need to scratch their families.
A lot of them really need it.

833
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:28,440
And but others are loyal to the
core.

834
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,720
And I like talking to both
parties.

835
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:35,200
You know, young people are
impressive and I think Brent

836
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:37,960
Pryor and his crew, they've
gotten together.

837
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,960
I thought, you know, maybe I'm
an old fuddy Duddy.

838
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:46,320
I don't think so.
I, I, I read hearts up there.

839
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,080
I, I think they're pretty good
now.

840
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,520
They may quit on y'all against
South Carolina.

841
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:56,120
They may just get waxed.
And that will be, that's the

842
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,040
thing.
And maybe they won't.

843
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,320
Maybe they'll do some crazy
stuff.

844
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,520
Maybe Kyron Drones is going to
come out there and stick the

845
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:06,680
ball in somebody's face mask
right off the bat.

846
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:14,240
I don't know.
But the daggone thing is, it's

847
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,520
going to be something.
It could be the greatest horror

848
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:25,800
show, and it could be, you know,
I'll tell you a story I like.

849
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:28,440
Do you have a minute for a
Virginia Tech story?

850
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:34,960
Frankie Allen, you know, he's
getting ready for the 8687

851
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,480
season.
He's Charlie's assistant.

852
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,760
And they come up with something
where they got to fire Charlie

853
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:44,800
because some kind of recruiting
bullshit.

854
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:50,200
And so everybody in the metro is
making 400,000 and they pay

855
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:56,520
Frankie 35 to be the head coach.
And Billy Stevens, the hero of

856
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,840
the NIT, gets furious if they
hire Frankie over him.

857
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:06,280
And he quits.
And so Virginia Tech says it

858
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,080
doesn't have the money to hire
an assistant.

859
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,320
So they find him an intern out
of the Midwest.

860
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:16,440
So he's got a Frankie's got to
pull them together.

861
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:22,640
And Frankie's a man of faith.
He's, he's a great guy and so he

862
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,120
pulls them all together and
they've got to play John

863
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,720
Thompson in Georgetown.
They've got to get on a bus and

864
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,320
ride Virginia Tech wanting to
pay to fly and they've got to

865
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,520
ride down to Tidewater.
John Thompson is recruiting

866
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:39,160
Alonzo Mourning and they, they
want to have the Hokies down

867
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,160
there to, to whip up on him in
front of Alonso.

868
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:47,400
And so the Hokies get on this
daggone bus and they ride what,

869
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:51,080
7 hours in a bus down to play
John Thompson.

870
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:57,200
And Frankie calls everybody
together before they get on the

871
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:59,800
bus.
He says, I want to talk to you

872
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:04,640
all about John 316.
Does anybody know about that?

873
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,760
And Tim, I forget Tim's last
name, A guy raised his hand says

874
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:19,120
John Thompson weighs 316 lbs.
The whole locker room just

875
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:22,560
explodes in law.
So that becomes their battle

876
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:26,600
cry.
So they're chatting John 316

877
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:31,120
John, they're going down there
and the world doesn't know about

878
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:37,480
Bimbo Coles.
And they get down there and

879
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:41,120
they're supposed to, you know,
be the Washington generals for

880
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:44,760
for John's big recruiting and,
and Frankie's got all these John

881
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:48,000
Thompson stories.
But they get down there in tech

882
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:53,760
beats and they're all chanting
as they leave.

883
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:57,000
And John Thompson's out there
cussing reporters saying you

884
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:00,280
better get that interim name off
that guy.

885
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,600
You got the interim tag off that
guy's name.

886
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:07,800
He's a hell of a coach.
And just load up in the bus and

887
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:13,160
they're coming back up to
Blacksburg and it's a long bus

888
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:18,720
drive and they have the same bus
driver, some old cat they give,

889
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:24,040
they're always on his last.
And so they're they're coming in

890
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:25,960
the back up into western
Virginia.

891
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:31,200
And the state trooper pulls them
over and they are raising him.

892
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:34,720
He'll take you to jail.
Snuffy or whatever his name was.

893
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:39,520
He had to get off and talk to
the trooper and he said he gets

894
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:42,000
back on the bus.
They're all yelling at him.

895
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:48,400
He says they're giving us an
escort to Blacksburg and they

896
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:53,800
roll into Blacksburg.
Castle is swamped with people

897
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:58,800
going nuts and they've ended up
beating George Raveling in USC

898
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,200
in that preseason.
Now, here's the thing with this

899
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:06,320
trumped up thing against Charlie
Tech has a great basketball

900
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:10,960
season, but they barter away the
rights to go to the tournament

901
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:16,520
to get out of sanctions from
that very corrupt organization,

902
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,680
the NCAA.
Well, one thing we can all be

903
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:24,920
glad for and Sonny Vaccaro, my
my friend, you know, has run a

904
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:30,960
lifelong campaign against NCAA
that that son of a gun is almost

905
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:36,440
gone because it what up.
I had to do a write a magazine

906
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:42,080
story for Lindy when Ohio State
won and I I titled it tattoo

907
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:49,680
this because you know, the NCAA
going to come in and burn these

908
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:54,560
guys over some tattoos today.
The cash flying around.

909
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:59,080
I mean, it's just gone from
ridiculous to insane.

910
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:01,000
Well, they've, they created this
problem.

911
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:04,680
They, they, they've created the
situation doing nothing, sitting

912
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:08,120
on their on their fists, doing
nothing, fighting it tooth and

913
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:11,760
nail instead of saying this is
where it's heading.

914
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:16,320
Understanding you can't be
raking up this much money as an

915
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:19,200
organization, as these
conferences, as these member

916
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:22,120
schools, and not compensating
the players that are going out

917
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:24,360
there and sweating for it,
right?

918
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:28,440
And, and, and not not having the
longevity and the vision to see

919
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,000
that that's where it's going.
And then being put in the

920
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:34,440
situation where you are forced
to implement it from a legal

921
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:38,040
standpoint and still just wash
your hands of it like it's not

922
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:41,800
your problem.
The place the the sports were

923
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:46,440
awash in money back in the day
in 1970.

924
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:51,480
As I said, I was a walk on it.
VMI Yeah, that season VMI

925
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:55,320
varsity was one in 10.
Now we were a bunch of skinny

926
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:59,480
ass freshmen going.
I weighed 159 lbs playing notes

927
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:03,560
card and a linebacker.
The starting Center for BMI

928
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:08,200
weighed 220 on the varsity.
And I mean by by the third game

929
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:10,400
and VMI was playing a lot of
money games.

930
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:14,440
By the third game, those guys
were so beat up UNC with Don

931
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,280
McCauley beating like 62 to
three.

932
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,000
You know, they were, they were
just getting slaughtered.

933
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:26,160
And even then those guys on that
team, and it ended up being the,

934
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:33,000
the, the head coach and the the
captain, the senior tackle

935
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:36,240
gotten a fistfight in practice
in front of everybody.

936
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:40,400
They're about rolling around in
the dirt like it's WWE or

937
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:43,600
something.
But even the even the players at

938
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:48,440
VMI on A1 in 10 team, we're
getting $50 handshakes after the

939
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:53,440
game from the alums and $50.00
that isn't selling much.

940
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:58,600
I unstopped sewers for the town
of Whitfield with a $23 take

941
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:03,680
home pay a week at $1.30 an hour
was the minimum wage then.

942
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:08,960
So a $50 check was two weeks pay
for every game.

943
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:11,320
They were getting those
handshakes and that was VMI.

944
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:18,440
Which VMI is like ridiculous in
terms of observing every kind of

945
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:23,280
rule possible.
And so college athletics has

946
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:27,400
always been full of a lot of
money, but handed out in weird

947
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,240
ways.
And then no longer, in a weird

948
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:33,280
way, I want to go back to South
Carolina because you telling

949
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,880
that story about Georgetown, you
say we're going to go.

950
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:38,680
We could go down and get our
asses waxed.

951
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:41,520
But that's why they play the
games, right?

952
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:47,520
Because if you had told that
crew going up to play Georgetown

953
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:53,080
in 19, I think it's 88 or 89,
you're going to win this king.

954
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:56,040
People probably laughed at you.
No, it's John Thompson.

955
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:00,840
That's where Ewing play.
They got Mourning, then they got

956
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,600
Mutombo and all these guys.
But that's why they play the

957
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,720
game.
So going down to Atlanta, it

958
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:08,960
won't be on a bus.
It's probably going to be on a

959
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:12,520
nice commercial flight out of
Roanoke down to Atlanta.

960
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:14,680
Yeah, I don't know.
They're probably won't even sit

961
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:16,600
down in the in the big Atlanta
airport.

962
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:18,640
They'll probably go to one of
the private ones down there to

963
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,880
make it easy on team.
But you play the game.

964
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:26,440
How much tone?
Because you said this is one of

965
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:28,320
those season.
It is a crossroads season.

966
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:31,760
It is a season that is going to
define a lot of things for Brent

967
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:39,880
Pry and for this school.
Guys, Karen drones and and he is

968
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:43,440
back.
We are going to get a window

969
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:45,400
into his heart.
Now, I'm not talking about

970
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,280
misfortune.
He he had a lot of misfortune.

971
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:50,840
A lot of he played injured last
year.

972
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:55,000
But I am telling you, he showed
me at the end of that Miami

973
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:56,960
game.
He stood there, made that play

974
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:01,480
and I that guy's got heart.
He he could have, he could have

975
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,560
ducked out.
He he wants to stand here and

976
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:09,200
confront this thing.
And if he goes down there and

977
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:13,320
you don't know right, I agree.
And they needed some kind of

978
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:15,440
chant.
Maybe I should have told pry

979
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,520
about John 360.
Anyway, it doesn't matter.

980
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:23,760
But the point is, yeah, I I you
know, I would like it is a

981
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:28,560
family struggle.
You know, this is, this is a

982
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,399
family struggle.
You know your next book.

983
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:34,920
Oh.
If crazy shit, what if crazy

984
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:36,720
shit happens down there in this
season?

985
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:42,880
No, you know.
Back story's there.

986
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:54,200
This Gordon book is 700 and some
pages, my magic book that came

987
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:59,359
out was the cover of the New
York Times book is 800.

988
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:04,640
I, I don't have any I'm, I'm
rolling along on.

989
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:12,319
I'm getting paid to do, I'm sort
of an executive producer on

990
01:09:12,359 --> 01:09:17,560
projects that will either be
scripted or documentary films.

991
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:23,880
And sometimes I'm getting
points, but you know, I don't

992
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:29,080
have to work too hard and
they've got fine writers that

993
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:35,840
are doing the thing and so I
don't need to.

994
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:40,120
I had fun doing this article.
I don't mind doing articles, but

995
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:43,760
you know I've I've had my run at
it.

996
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:49,040
And and this season, I mean,
when you look, you talked about

997
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:52,240
Kyron and I think, you know,
we've had Kyron on this show.

998
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:54,920
We talked to him, we talked to
his dad a lot.

999
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,520
I mean, these are these are
really great people.

1000
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:00,040
And I think the.
Oh, tell me about that.

1001
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:01,440
Yeah, I'm going to hear what
you.

1002
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:08,200
When when we talked to to Kyron,
he is he's very much a quiet

1003
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:12,000
lead by example guy, but he is a
guy when he gets in the moment

1004
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:15,600
and he is feeling it and his
confidence is is burning.

1005
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:18,440
He's a gamer.
And I think that's what I think

1006
01:10:18,440 --> 01:10:22,240
a lot of people maybe miss about
him is that in the moment, with

1007
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:25,840
playing with confidence, I would
I would take him up against any

1008
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,640
college quarterback in the NCAA
right now.

1009
01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:31,000
Brian.
There's one game rolling.

1010
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:34,920
I want you to go back and look
at Pittsburgh 2023.

1011
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,880
He throws a bomb touchdown.
He is running down that

1012
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,960
sideline, given the finger and
given the FU to every single Pit

1013
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:48,320
Panther defender and, and and
you're watching and it's like he

1014
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:51,040
doesn't care.
He's almost challenged him to

1015
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:54,240
come hit me because I'm going to
keep putting it in the end zone

1016
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:59,000
every time.
And I think seeing that in

1017
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:01,280
saying what Brian said and we
talked with him, he is that soft

1018
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:03,000
guy, but you put him on that
field.

1019
01:11:03,480 --> 01:11:06,880
There's always talking about and
you've probably Jordan had it,

1020
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,320
Magic had it.
So many great players have it.

1021
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:13,440
It's a switch and when they
click that switch get out of the

1022
01:11:13,440 --> 01:11:16,600
way.
Especially in football.

1023
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:19,920
Exactly.
Now basketball is, is, is a

1024
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:23,800
different product.
But, but there's a, there's the

1025
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:26,360
tremendous explosion.
Jordan's unbelievable.

1026
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:31,840
I, I, I thank my lucky stars for
all those seasons.

1027
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:35,640
Tex Winter was my best friend
and guide to the whole thing.

1028
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:38,760
I couldn't have been luckier.
I didn't deserve it.

1029
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:42,200
And you know, the Chicago
Tribune needed somebody to do

1030
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:46,200
projects on the team, their book
division of all things.

1031
01:11:46,440 --> 01:11:50,480
But the point is drones.
I saw something.

1032
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:54,960
Everything I've got is that.
And I went up there and I saw

1033
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:58,200
him stand over on the far
sideline and at indoor facility

1034
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,840
all by himself.
And I said something's not

1035
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:03,080
right.
The next day they announced they

1036
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:08,760
were shutting him down.
But I got the sense that he had

1037
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:13,760
a lot of they got a lot of new
faces, but that he had a lot of

1038
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:17,640
respect on that roster.
But somebody on one of these

1039
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:20,280
sites slandered the crap out of
him.

1040
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:26,840
And so I just wonder, you just
never know because some of these

1041
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:31,280
Hokies can get a little weird,
But I, I, that's not what I get

1042
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:39,000
out of Kyron drones.
I think he is, he's that guy

1043
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:42,000
that wants to do it.
You know, I also spent a lot of

1044
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:46,160
time with Kobe.
People thought he was out of his

1045
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:48,880
mind.
I was with Kobe through all the

1046
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:53,920
eight man years and you know, I
did 2 books on him.

1047
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:58,720
But Kobe was was sort of like
that.

1048
01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:03,400
He he was just going to be that
guy and he, you know, he's

1049
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:07,960
riding that horse for destiny.
And Kobe was I thought, man, you

1050
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:10,080
got to worry about him.
He's thinking he's going to be

1051
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:12,880
the greatest.
He was 1819 year old kid when I

1052
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:15,720
was first hanging out with him.
He thinks he's going to be the

1053
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:19,640
greatest all time and he'll look
at you and tell you that I said

1054
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:27,000
Lord and and Karen just sort of
the kinds of things you're,

1055
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:32,320
you're saying there could be
good things happen.

1056
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:34,840
It's not precluded for Virginia
Tech.

1057
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:41,400
It's not it's not hopeless.
It's just very difficult.

1058
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:45,000
Sure.
Well, you brought it up and

1059
01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:48,400
let's go ahead and talk a little
bit about it because I don't

1060
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:51,400
know if you know, but I am a I'm
a Lakers fan here.

1061
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:55,440
So I'd like to hear somebody
that's that's, you know, talked

1062
01:13:55,440 --> 01:13:59,160
extensively with, you know,
wrote the book on Magic, wrote

1063
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:01,880
one on Kobe, had had some
conversations there.

1064
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:06,040
What's what's 1 story about
Magic and one story about Kobe?

1065
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:10,280
Maybe you want to share with us
that that that might be kind of

1066
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:17,800
cool to hear.
Wow, Co with magic it actually

1067
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:23,440
he was an amazing kid.
He was an he just had and you

1068
01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:30,680
know, it's a complicated story,
but they were had bussing.

1069
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:34,120
This is in 7370 and he had an
older brother.

1070
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:39,040
He had ten siblings or nine
siblings and his older brother

1071
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:43,120
was a hell of a player.
And but they, they all got

1072
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:45,240
bussed.
They were in a perfectly

1073
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:48,880
racially balanced school, but
they, they started bussing in

1074
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:55,360
Lansing, MI, 100 kids a time.
And so his brother, the day

1075
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:59,680
before Christmas, Magic was
still in like 8th grade and he

1076
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:01,280
wouldn't go to high school at
10th grade.

1077
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:05,680
But it's the coaches, first time
they had black players right

1078
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:10,160
before Christmas, they kicked 5
black players off the basketball

1079
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:14,600
team.
First all white school, first

1080
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:17,600
time they're there.
And I, I spent, I spent 100

1081
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:20,320
hours interviewing these two
coaches that kicked them off.

1082
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:25,600
And it, it, it's like this
really sore subject that it just

1083
01:15:26,440 --> 01:15:32,840
ached across the decades.
And magic has to go.

1084
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:38,200
The school system says he has to
go to that white school now.

1085
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:41,440
He sleeps in a bed with his
brother, his brother.

1086
01:15:41,440 --> 01:15:44,120
When he got cut, all the other
four kids took it.

1087
01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:46,840
His brother cussed the coaches
out.

1088
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:48,760
He would cuss them out in the
hall.

1089
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:51,600
Every time he saw him, it was
like.

1090
01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:55,360
And this boiled over and he and
Magic shared a bed.

1091
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:59,120
And Magic went to bed every
night listening to his angry

1092
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:01,960
brother.
And Magic did not want to go to

1093
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:09,080
Lansing play for those coaches.
And he lives way down in the

1094
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:11,200
city.
They're out in the suburbs.

1095
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:15,320
And it's finally when he has to
go.

1096
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:21,800
And it's it's like that summer
and he has a bicycle.

1097
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:24,120
He's the only kid in his
neighborhood has a bicycle.

1098
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:29,200
He never rides because nobody
else has a bicycle.

1099
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:31,080
What's he going to do, get on a
bicycle?

1100
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:37,280
This old man's an auto work.
So he gets on that bicycle and

1101
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:41,800
rides way out in the country.
There's a park out there and he

1102
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:48,680
rides by the coach's house.
And I'm, I mean, you don't cross

1103
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:53,320
those lines in the 70s.
And he goes and knocks on the

1104
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:59,960
door and visits with the coach's
daughter and and the coach

1105
01:16:59,960 --> 01:17:06,440
hasn't as a short goal, but but
Magic takes it upon himself as a

1106
01:17:06,440 --> 01:17:13,400
14, almost 15 year old kid.
And he goes back several times,

1107
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:23,240
his emotional intelligence and
the ability to do it now, all

1108
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:26,080
the stories about everything.
I mean, he went from this

1109
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:28,760
incredibly.
And he was a powerful kid.

1110
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:35,840
I mean, he took over the school
and he would call his own, he

1111
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:41,520
would call his own assemblies
outside first for things.

1112
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:44,040
And they would just, they didn't
know what to do with it.

1113
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:50,680
But he was a really good kid.
But you know, he got he got

1114
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:54,520
mixed up with Terry Furlough and
what's going to Terry Furlough

1115
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:56,560
got killed early.
He's a brilliant player of

1116
01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:01,320
Michigan State, but Magic at
1516 got over there with the

1117
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:06,000
college girls at Michigan State,
which I mean, just the trial run

1118
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:08,400
for the insane life he lived in
LA.

1119
01:18:09,480 --> 01:18:17,120
And so his business story, you
know, he's a he's a billionaire.

1120
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:20,960
He was trying to catch Jordan,
but I mean, the business deals

1121
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:28,200
he struck and the things he's
done and then to to, you know,

1122
01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:35,000
to basically be sex addicted and
end up HIV positive.

1123
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:44,440
It's a it was a crazy story.
Jordan on the other hand, he

1124
01:18:44,440 --> 01:18:50,760
just scared everybody to death.
The NBA was the damn like I

1125
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:54,240
said, Testosterone City and I
spent five seasons with the

1126
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:59,400
Detroit Bad boys.
I did their their team books and

1127
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:04,520
their championship stories and
for Stylist Publisher.

1128
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:11,600
So anyway, I got to my whole
thing was watching Jordan and

1129
01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:14,560
the bad boys and all the evil
shit they did to him.

1130
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:22,080
So it was and and Jordan, I
mean, not backing down and he,

1131
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:27,480
you know, he finally got built
up and but Jordan scared

1132
01:19:27,480 --> 01:19:31,240
everybody.
Not quite the the bad boy

1133
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:33,640
Pistons, although he scared them
too.

1134
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:47,680
But Jordan was just I mean, and
I had to work hard to to really

1135
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:50,760
get that audience with Jordan
that I needed all those

1136
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:54,680
one-on-one interviews with him
and Tex winner, you know, coach

1137
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:57,000
Jordan longer than anybody.
And he would tell me all the

1138
01:19:57,000 --> 01:20:01,440
shit that was going on and I
would then start to use that.

1139
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:06,480
For example, I was up in Toronto
and the locker rooms were packed

1140
01:20:07,120 --> 01:20:10,320
the.
The PR director, Tim Hallam

1141
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:14,320
called it the Pig Fuck.
It was packed with, with media

1142
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:18,520
and, and the, the, the proposal
for my Jordan book, the little

1143
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:22,720
Brown was called the Pig Fuck.
And and it was about being in

1144
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:26,040
that crazy crowd.
And we're up in Toronto and

1145
01:20:26,040 --> 01:20:31,720
Texas told me some stuff that I
need to ask Jordan to just to

1146
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:35,320
send a message.
And so Pippen comes out of the

1147
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:39,960
locker room 1st and all the
media go follow him.

1148
01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:45,440
I mean, it's like whoosh.
And you, I've gotten where I

1149
01:20:45,440 --> 01:20:47,480
could time it here.
A minute later, here comes

1150
01:20:47,480 --> 01:20:50,120
Jordan.
And I know that I'm going to get

1151
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:54,400
a minute and a half, maybe,
maybe a minute walking across

1152
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:57,480
the locker room one-on-one with
him to ask him a question.

1153
01:20:57,800 --> 01:21:01,520
And I always tried to ask him
where he would stop and cut

1154
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:04,560
those eyes at me.
Like, you know, how do you know

1155
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:08,800
that?
And so Jordan was a challenge

1156
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:12,120
there.
Kobe and Shaq were in a war.

1157
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:21,600
And I introduced Tex to Kobe
before Tex became a Lakers

1158
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:26,880
assistant coach because Kobe was
a lost, lonely kid.

1159
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:35,800
I really worried for his mental
health and the Techs started

1160
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:40,000
calling him up.
They they, they exchanged phone

1161
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:41,680
numbers.
I hooked him up.

1162
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:46,880
And Jerry Crowell said, what in
the hell is Tech calling Kobe

1163
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:48,920
Bryant?
You know, because the assistant

1164
01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:52,680
coach called a player on another
team a huge no no.

1165
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:56,960
And then I introduced Kobe to
George Mumford before a game in

1166
01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:00,680
Houston one night.
George is the mindfulness guru

1167
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:03,000
who was Phil Jackson's Zen
master.

1168
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:10,520
And Kobe considered George.
He was very skeptical.

1169
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:14,560
That was Michael skeptical of
George, but they both came to

1170
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:18,080
consider him critical.
In fact, George was the only

1171
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:24,880
thing that Shaq and Kobe really
ever agreed on that it was, it

1172
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:26,320
was tense there.
It was.

1173
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:35,200
It's crazy when a team has
terrible chemistry and you got a

1174
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:38,600
lot of talent and terrible
chemistry, immense talent.

1175
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:39,720
Immense.
Talent.

1176
01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:43,960
Terrible.
Chemistry and what what these

1177
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:48,800
tech teams sometimes have had
and and I will say one thing,

1178
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:57,120
you know, the pandemic that for
Fuente and Pry it was, you know,

1179
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:00,840
I don't want to throw off too
much from Fuente.

1180
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:05,040
I really didn't spend time
talking to him or I just he

1181
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:08,040
really pissed me off and he went
down to Baylor to apply for that

1182
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:09,760
job.
I said, you're out of there,

1183
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:12,440
buddy.
There's no way you can.

1184
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:17,360
Yeah, him coming back from that
was kind of, I know.

1185
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:19,720
It rubbed a lot of people in the
fan base the wrong way.

1186
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:23,680
And you know, you call it, you
know, a reconnaissance mission

1187
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:26,080
to see what other schools are
doing or whatever you will.

1188
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:29,880
But I mean, it's still it, it,
it, it rubbed people the wrong

1189
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:31,720
way.
It sent it sent a wrong message

1190
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:35,200
about where where we were and
where we wanted to be and what

1191
01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:38,080
his commitment was exactly.
And, and I mean that.

1192
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:43,440
Was already at a point where.
From a from a closing standpoint

1193
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:48,120
and a recruiting standpoint, he
didn't really have the the

1194
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:51,160
goodwill of the fan base to burn
on something like that.

1195
01:23:51,440 --> 01:23:57,200
Yeah, he did not.
He never really wanted to

1196
01:23:57,200 --> 01:24:05,880
connect, you know, pry is he
under?

1197
01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:08,600
He got, you know, he was there.
He gets it.

1198
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:13,840
He, you know, a lot of coaches
would really bristle at Frank

1199
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:19,120
Beamer walking around the halls
and he worships pride, worships

1200
01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:22,320
Frank Beamer.
And he really does not want to

1201
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:27,440
disappoint him.
And, you know, so much for that.

1202
01:24:27,440 --> 01:24:30,280
I ultimately you do have to win
games.

1203
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:36,360
I just don't see it in the cards
unless they go oh, and 11 or

1204
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:42,160
whatever it is they're playing
or three and eight.

1205
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:46,960
I don't see that happening at
all unless they have horrific

1206
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:50,040
injuries.
I think these coordinators are

1207
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:52,480
given pride.
The support he did not have from

1208
01:24:52,480 --> 01:24:57,240
his coordinators previously.
That's my and I think that's

1209
01:24:57,240 --> 01:25:01,000
the, I think that's the truth
coming out of all this.

1210
01:25:01,440 --> 01:25:04,160
I really do.
And I think they got it.

1211
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:07,160
They got an offensive offensive
coordinator.

1212
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:09,920
He's offensive minded.
I mean, the guy knows what he's

1213
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:11,760
doing, He knows what he's
looking for.

1214
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:15,760
They had a he's coached A
Heisman Trophy winner.

1215
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:20,160
So I mean he's.
Experiences everything.

1216
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:27,160
And, and, and I, you know, the,
the, the defensive coordinator,

1217
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:32,560
they're not bashful.
They are not I I think they're

1218
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:36,520
going to be good and The Who
knows what the Hokies will do.

1219
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:41,160
That's on Chiron a lot and he
wants to do it.

1220
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:44,200
I know that.
And he he hasn't said I'm

1221
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:45,520
telling you the money and
running.

1222
01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:54,240
He's that's that's not what he's
about South in that sense, just

1223
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:59,880
by the Jerry West rule.
He, he shows up, he's got I, I

1224
01:25:59,880 --> 01:26:01,520
read him as having a lot of
heart.

1225
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:05,240
I think he he kind of
epitomizes.

1226
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:08,680
Just from a personality
standpoint, a lot of kind of

1227
01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:14,000
what we what we saw a little bit
from those big runs in the

1228
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:17,400
2000s.
He's got, he's got grit and

1229
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:21,480
swagger in equal amounts.
And I think you kind of need to

1230
01:26:21,480 --> 01:26:24,480
have that to be successful at
quarterback.

1231
01:26:24,480 --> 01:26:26,880
Now you got to, you got to be
tough, but you got to have a

1232
01:26:26,880 --> 01:26:30,920
little bit of swagger and a
little bit of attitude and, and,

1233
01:26:30,920 --> 01:26:32,720
and play with the chip on your
shoulder.

1234
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:37,600
I you just hear you say that.
Makes me think of all the

1235
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:41,320
swagger with those Bulls.
I had to do a flashback piece

1236
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:46,520
about that 9596 Bulls team that
that went 72 and 10.

1237
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:52,600
They they were, it was
ridiculous how much swagger they

1238
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:56,080
did.
And you know, Phil, I was

1239
01:26:56,080 --> 01:26:59,520
thought I had to talk to Phil
Jackson and he was saying, you

1240
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:05,640
know, there's no more powerful
feeling than walking into a

1241
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:11,920
building, somebody's building.
You get off your bus, you walk

1242
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:15,000
into the building and you're
walking in with Michael Jordan.

1243
01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:21,760
You cannot, he says.
You cannot imagine that now

1244
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:25,880
where it gets really bad is
trying to be around him on the

1245
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:29,720
days between games.
He he is.

1246
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:33,480
It just will eat you alive
trying to deal with him.

1247
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:36,920
But Jordan had a lot of
charisma.

1248
01:27:37,480 --> 01:27:41,760
The the the big fuck thing was
about, you know, he would come

1249
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:46,600
out in these great suits and the
they would glom onto him in that

1250
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:49,720
locker room.
And then I mean, you know, post

1251
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:54,080
locker room, all the and the PR
directors were going Michael

1252
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:58,840
come to the podium.
Don't and he did not want to do

1253
01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:01,720
it.
He wanted the intimacy of all

1254
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:05,280
those damn reporters.
And he you know, he had so much

1255
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:10,520
charisma and everybody there, he
was like a spectacle.

1256
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,080
I can't believe I'm looking at
this guy.

1257
01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:18,600
You know, everybody's this is
surreal and every minute of it

1258
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:24,000
was borderline surreal.
And there are guys like that

1259
01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:28,600
now.
Michael was just a a regular Joe

1260
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:32,600
a lot North Carolina.
You you don't know.

1261
01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:37,800
It makes you wonder if Michael
had that gear if he hadn't

1262
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:42,360
gotten with the dogs.
I don't Michael Vick.

1263
01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:44,920
I don't know.
I don't I don't know.

1264
01:28:44,920 --> 01:28:53,840
I didn't really spend time
observing him, but it's

1265
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:56,720
interesting.
It it it is part of the hope for

1266
01:28:56,720 --> 01:29:00,440
the Hokies.
They just got to they got to

1267
01:29:00,440 --> 01:29:07,240
understand this is not business
as usual in college, this wild,

1268
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:08,880
Wild West.
Yeah.

1269
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:11,800
And I think that they've I.
Think we're?

1270
01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:14,600
Understanding that, I think the
changes that have been made, you

1271
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:17,360
mentioned the coordinators a
couple times tonight, the

1272
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:19,760
changes in strength and
conditioning, the bringing on

1273
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:21,880
with more staff.
I think Brent Pride knows it.

1274
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:23,960
And we, we've talked to Brent
Pride, we've interviewed him

1275
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:26,840
twice and he does understand the
culture.

1276
01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:28,640
He understands the importance of
it.

1277
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:33,360
And Roland talking with you the
last 90 minutes here, it's great

1278
01:29:33,360 --> 01:29:35,920
to see how much you understand
the importance of it.

1279
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:39,600
And you have been there, Hey,
growing up in Withville School

1280
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:43,920
in Lexington, the whole valley.
Yeah.

1281
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:46,520
We're going to wrap it up here.
Please.

1282
01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:48,520
Please.
What what I want you to do if?

1283
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:51,920
You're able leave us e-mail.
Phone number something because

1284
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:54,160
we want you back on here.
We don't know when.

1285
01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:57,320
Maybe it'll be a good story.
If you like enjoying, if you

1286
01:29:57,320 --> 01:30:03,640
like to partake in any sort of
bourbon or whatever, every year

1287
01:30:03,640 --> 01:30:06,520
in December.
Drinker from age 13 on.

1288
01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:09,040
So yeah.
OK, so write this down in

1289
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:13,040
December every.
Year we get on here, we call it

1290
01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:15,440
the state of the program.
And we talk about our Hokies.

1291
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:20,520
And it is a night where we we
Evan Williams White label, I've

1292
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:24,600
got a big bottle of Black label
Johnnie Walker Scotch, and we

1293
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:27,120
lay our feelings.
But Roland, we.

1294
01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:29,840
Appreciate you having on.
Hang with us just a second.

1295
01:30:29,920 --> 01:30:33,200
We'll grab your info.
We're going to wrap up this

1296
01:30:33,200 --> 01:30:36,440
episode of the Boundary Corner
podcast.

1297
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:39,240
Brought to you by the Main
Street Pharmacy in Blacksburg.

1298
01:30:39,320 --> 01:30:43,000
Brought to you by Moments on the
Moray in Lexington, 2 of

1299
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:45,800
Roland's most favorite places in
the world, I'm assuming along

1300
01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:48,520
with the Virginia.
I'm Curtis Wilson.

1301
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:52,480
I'm Brian Siegler.
Check out Boundary Corner BT.

1302
01:30:52,480 --> 01:30:56,440
Dot com listen to all of our.
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1303
01:30:56,440 --> 01:31:00,480
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1304
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:03,200
Get us on your favorite podcast
source.

1305
01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:07,360
As always, Jason Long who plays
us on plays it out down in

1306
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:10,000
Roanoke.
That's Liz's husband, that's our

1307
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:12,400
buddy's wife.
Check him out Jason Long

1308
01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:16,640
music.com and you can link to
everything from him there.

1309
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:20,840
We appreciate Roland, you do not
know the stories.

1310
01:31:21,440 --> 01:31:24,240
We might just be calling you
just to get a few stories every

1311
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:26,640
now and then, rolling just for
the pure hell of it.

1312
01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:31,960
As always, let's go Hokies.

Roland Lazenby

Right Man Wrong Time